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Flynnt
Shawover
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Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 377

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re: For those asking why I left OpenRaid

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The latest and greatest news is that I've decided to return to OpenRaid. Happy
The Admins have remedied the situation so I'll return.




Quote:
Had lots of folks asking recently. As you may recall, I said it was a long story, so here's the long story. Even this is a pretty shortened up version, tbh.


First, here's this thread. Keep it in mind, I'll refer to it later. Obviously, I can't reproduce any in-game conversations I've had with mods, or convos in their chatroom, but this thread will hopefully help put some stuff into perspective, to some extent.
https://www.openraid.us/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1134
If you also view a link that Trihara posted in his comment you'll find right at the very top, almost the first thing he says is "...various proven volunteers that lead throughout the day." Keep that in mind also, he essentially just said himself that he's not there 24/7. Now, take note of Malilzi's post.

.. and there's this which is copied from PMs to me from Lyádryn on their forums.
Quote:
Hello Flynnt,

It has come to our attention that you have been using our reputation system incorrectly. After looking into this matter, we have removed the extra reputation you have gained through signing more than 1 of your characters up to each of your own raids (this was around 800). We do not tolerate cheating on OpenRaid. Please consider this your first and final warning. Should you continue to exploit our reputation system you will be banned.

Any questions, please contact me.

Lyádryn
Head of OpenRaid Support
lyadryn@openraid.eu

The deduction was -1500 btw, not -800.

This, to which I replied,
Quote:
I talked to some other mods & ex-mods a little while ago and according to them my wrongful reputation gains came to "about 759 rep" as they put it. So, I took a moment to go through the history of all my characters' reputation gains since the time when I first began signing up for my raids on multiple characters and I found & documented the information presented below in quote form. I can understand removing the reputation that I truly did acquire wrongfully, which would come out to be 209 rep. I'm curious as to where the 759 or 800 numbers come from. Moreover, my intentions were not, in the least bit, to cheat the system but rather to simply keep my attendees informed as to my character names/roles to help deter any confusion during raid times seeing as how I'd had problems with that previously. So, I do not understand how a -1500 reputation penalty is appropriate. Even -800 would be stiff, though I could much easier live with -800 than -1500.

If you could please go over this with me in detail so that I may understand the rationale behind this, as well as the math behind some of these figures, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,
~ Flynnt
Quote:

THURS, MAY 17
Shawover (Present): 28
Krinn (Absent): 1
Flynnt (Absent): 10
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-9c504ddwcgbd9k7m/

SAT, MAY 19
Shawover (Absent): 13
Krinn (Absent): 20
Flynnt (Present): 31
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-cf8b4ns9helq18x2/

MON, MAY 21
Shawover (Present): 11
Krinn (Absent): 5
Flynnt (Absent): 16
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/p3pzk27yjzdwaou6/

WEDS, MAY 23
Shawover (Present): 18
Krinn (Absent): 9
Flynnt (Absent): 22
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/yi8h4t1de78ciyn2/

THURS, MAY 24
Shawover (Absent): 15
Krinn (Absent): 15
Flynnt (Present): 35
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/d6mq8qbjidisuzlu/

FRI, MAY 25
Shawover (Present): 21
Krinn (Absent): 7
Flynnt (Absent): 15
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/fbt23zsuevzrmof6/

SAT, MAY 26 (full)
Shawover (Absent): 5
Krinn (Present): 24
Flynnt (Absent): 13
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/snwln8hxtkvay09q/

SAT, MAY 26 (rag)
Shawover (Absent): 16
Krinn (Absent): 16
Flynnt (Present): 35
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/yel6pgqr2p7njx85/

INCORRECT REPUTATION GAINS:
Shawover: 60 rep
Krinn: 73 rep
Flynnt: 76 rep

Total: 209 rep

Alleged Fraudulent Reptuation Total: 759 rep
Reputation Deduction Applied: -1500 rep

Deduction Information:
- Applied on Sunday May 27, 2012 @ 4:18pm EST
- Applied in the form of a raid event.
- Said event scheduled Wednesday, February 29, 2012 @ 4:00pm EST - 5:00pm EST
- Event Description: "This is the event that is used when moderators add/remove reputation. This is not a real event. NOTE: This is used by ALL moderators. Kimpossibru did not (necessarily) add this correction to your character!"
- Event Raid Leader: Kimpossibru.
- Comment Added by Àsk on April 23, 2012 @ 2:41pm EST: "A++ SMOOTH RUN WOULD RAID AGAIN."


I then recieved this reply,
Quote:
Hello,

After going through our own reputation logs for your characters, in terms of reputation gained where more than 1 character has gained reputation from the same raid your numbers look like this;

Flynnt
229

Krinn
101

Shawover
187

This amounts 517 total reputation gained from multiple raids.
Due to this I will remove your -1000 reputation, leaving the -500 from multiple raids. While we do leave a lot of this up to our members to ensure that they do vote for the correct members, it is also the raid leaders responsibility to ensure that the roster is up-to-date, or that the no-show and not invited buttons are used correctly.
In this case, please do not sign up for your raids more than once to avoid this issue again. Should you need to change characters, make sure to completely remove your alts from the roster by making them 'hidden raiders'. This will disable the voting feature.

Any further issues, please contact me.

Lyádryn


Note that they never did attempt to show/explain their math on this. They just throw up some random numbers and expect me to blindly follow along and take their word for it.

Now, the reasoning behind having all my toons up on the roster, as said partly in one of the messages, was so that folks knew my toon names & roles. I'd had quite frequently where people wouldn't recognize my toon name because I wasn't on Flynnt and they'd just remove me off real id right away and not re-add me. Then later they'd complain about not having an invite. This coupled with the fact that every week would change in terms of which toon I was going to be on in each raid (and I wouldn't know which until the day of, pretty much) made it a lot easier to just have my toon names up there for people to see. That was the whole point. Marking them as hidden, as suggested, defeats the purpose but it is what it is. No big deal, doesn't bother me.

More importantly, their numbers are still off by a longshot. Essentially what they did is added up all the rep I gained beyond a certain date regardless of whether I was there at the event or not. Obviously, that inflates the numbers by a ton. But, they don't want to be approached by me about it. They don't want to fix it and they want to just brush it under the rug and be done.

That's all fine and dandy, I can even live with that. I'm pretty easy-going and I partly had the rep deduction coming to me. I hadn't thought about trying to cheat at rep gaining but that doesn't change the fact that I got 209 rep that I shouldn't have gotten.

Here's what bugs me. Note the link at the top of the forums. Note that Trihara is a moderator (as are some of the guys he runs with). I think a bright yellow spyplane would be less obvious than the rep fraud going on in those runs. It has been brought up before but they refuse to address it. One thing not in that thread and you wont find it elsewhere, I've actually talked to mods before about this, at least a month ago. All I was told is "We're aware of it."

Nevertheless, nothing has happened, it continues to go on. On the forums there's posts now about it, but they're quickly locked and "justified." So basically why I left OpenRaid is because I choose not to support their system where their moderators (and those whom they support in their raids) can essentially do whatever they please and be protected while if any other ordinary people do the same things, even if not intentional, they get nailed to the wall.

And lastly, for anyone who touches on the idea/concept of Trihara being just one incident or case of this, I agree. It's just one incident. Just one case. There were others, this isn't the only one. Simply put, this is just one incident which I spoke about this time and this just happens to be the final straw is all, which is why this particular incident received more attention. Moreover, I can guarantee there's more incidents that I don't even know about yet.


Last edited by Shawover on 2012/06/12 21:12; edited 1 time in total
dabo7
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Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 2330

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re: For those asking why I left OpenRaid

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I've found that making up random numbers as I go tends to have a 85% chance of being 90% effective. You obviously fall outside the trend. Lol.

In all seriousness though, I have no idea how open raid works, but I woulda probably done something similar (I'm lazy), and just deducted some nice round number amount. In that case though I wouldn't of actually been specific about going through gained rep and attempting to non justly justify my reasoning. I woulda said "Just because". But seeing as they didn't, I'd want a solid answer too. Good thing that service is free I guess lol.


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